This may be old news to many of you, but I don't really follow entertainment news, so I hadn't heard it until recently: Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas has announced their plans to picket at Heath Ledger’s funeral because the actor “promoted homosexuality” by his film ‘Brokeback Mountain’ in which he played a gay man.
Fred Phelps leads the church, which demostrates their strong conviction against gays, lesbians and soldiers by picketing. The Topeka, Kansas based group has made headlines in the past after picketing at the funeral’s of soldiers carrying signs reading ‘Thank God for Dead Soldiers’ and ‘God Hates Fags.’
“God hates the, tacky bucket of slime seasoned with womit known as Brokeback Mountain and he hates all persons having anything whatsoever to do with it,” the church writes on a flyer.
Coverage from ABC News can be found here... and here is a copy of the actual news release put out by the church.
Here is yet another example of some Christians behaving like idiots. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor?
Saturday, February 2, 2008
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I think it's properly quoted as "love thy neighbor as thyself", isn't it? Relevant perhaps?
22 Ways To Be A Good Democrat
1. You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.
2. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.
3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. Nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean communists.
4. You have to believe that there was no art before Federal funding .
5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV's.
6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.
7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.
8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach fourth graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.
9. You have to believe t hat hunters don't care about nature, but loony activists who h ave never been outsi de of San Francisco do.
10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.
11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make "The Passion of the Christ" for financial gain only.
12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of th e Constitution.
13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.
14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison, and A.G. Bell.
15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.
16. You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and is a very nice person.
17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.
18. You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar a nd a sex offender belonged in the White House.
19. You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.
20. You have to believe that illegal Democrat Party funding by the Chinese Government is somehow in the best interest to the United States.
21. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right wing conspiracy.
22. You have to believe that it's okay to give Federal workers the day off on Christmas Day ..........but it's not okay to say "Merry Christmas."
Ready to vote???
Ah, what fun. I could put up a similar list about being a good republican, but how about this instead?
1 way to be a good member of either major party: Be convinced that the real enemy is the guy sitting across the aisle who obviously is a bad American because they don't think the same way you do.
Thankfully I don't claim membership in either group.
26 Ways to be a Good Republican
1. You have to be in favor of marriage, unless of course, it is yours. Go ahead, cheat and lie, then divorce, remarry, and do it all over again.
2. Oh, yes, you have to be in favor of marriage except, of course, for those damned homos.
3. You have to be against abortion because it is killing, but in favor of war because it is killing!
4. You have to embrace wars, but not sending your own children to fight in them, not ensuring that the soldiers have proper equipment, and not making sure that the treasury has the money to pay for it.
5. And you have to label anyone against your wars and killing as being unpatriotic.
6. You have to be against unions because it is OK for management to conspire against workers, but not OK for workers to consolidate to protect themselves.
7. You have to be in favor of tax cuts for the rich and letting the poor fend for themselves.
8. You have to believe that AIDS is a plague sent upon the earth by a vengeful god who hates homos.
9. You have to hate tree-huggers because you believe that we can ransack the Earth, burn oil non-stop, and pollute freely, since your god gave you dominion over the earth.
10. You have to believe that condoms are evil and children will never learn about sex until you decide to tell them all about the joys of abstinence. After all, no Republican ever had an unwanted pregnancy, only those hippy Democrats.
11. You have to believe that your brainwashed wife is as good a teacher as all of those who went to institutional learning facilities to earn a degree in teaching. That way you can raise more little mindless, home-schooled Republicans who believe in ID, young earth, and the glory of god.
12. You have to believe that anyone can grow up to be president as long as they are a male, white, Anglo Saxon, Protestant.
13. You have to worship Mel Gibson because he beat up Jesus on the big screen, even though he is a misogynist racist (Mel, that is, not Jesus, you love Jesus more than life itself).
14. You have to believe that Ronald Reagan and Pat Robertson are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison, and A.G. Bell.
15. You have to believe that there is no such thing as racism any more, and that no one is racist, either. I mean, even that bastion of conservatism Strom Thurmond fucked his black maid, didn’t he?
16. Oh, but there is reverse racism because white people are the victim of horrible
17. You have to hate Hillary Clinton even in the face of evidence that she is brilliant, dedicated, partriotic, and a public servant with the best interest of America in her heart.
18. You have to love Ronald Reagan even though he was a subpar president who couldn’t win a Republican nomination today given his actions while in office (e.g. raised taxes, cut and run, etc.)
19. You have to never read the word of the US Constitution in order to go on believing that your religion should be practiced by everyone and supported by tax dollars (like erecting manger scenes on public property) but gay pride parades should be illegal because, well, you just hate those homos.
20. You have to believe the ACLU is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the NRA is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.
21. You have to believe that there is no vast right wing conspiracy even though some of the conspirers have admitted that there is.
22. You have to believe that all Democrats are against everything you like, not just the wacko shit.
23. You have to protect Christmas against a non-existent attack and you have to believe with your whole being that it is a Christian holiday and not based on pagan celebrations of the Solstice.
24. You have to believe that Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, David Dreier, Mark Foley and others are not flaming homos, but are just being attacked by that overwhelmingly liberal press.
25. You have to believe that the legal system is fair and balanced (and so is Fox News); and the only reason there are more blacks in jail is because they are more prone to commit crimes, not because of any inequity in the legal system.
26. You have to believe liberals telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar, war criminal, and a binge drinker belongs in the White House.
Looks like Bob is right, and it is very easy to come up with a Republican list!
re: ways 2 be a good partisan
--if bawdy was here now, i'm sure he'd say somethin' about statesmen. ;D (luv ya bawdy!)
re: fred phelps and his "church"
--these goons started protesting soldiers funerals here in indiana a couple years ago.
from what i've read, this "church" is phelps and fifty of his family members.
literally.
the courts decided against them in a multi-million dollar suit last year. doesn't seem 2 be stopping them, though.
what i never understood was why the legitimate christian establishment didn't flood the protest scenes and pr efforts of phelps with a countering strategy.
fifty stupid people could be swept away in a wave of thousands.
i'm just sayin'.
and, 4 the record, i don't believe this family/cult counts as christian any more than koresh in waco. but they both exemplify the dangerous potential of religious thought..
i don't believe mystical/religious experience is inherently bad, either. i believe such experience serves humanity in general, so please don't misunderstand.
but 2 ignore the ugliness of phelps' cult/church/whatever, and especially 2 ignore their "inspiration" (a radical evangelical protestant interpretation of da bible), is a bad idea.
the christian establishment would have been wise 2 organize. a couple years ago.
You are right, coreyd,
Statesmen/women are what we need right now and desperately. Both partisan sides are much too quick to call the other side the problem and their side the crusaders for good, but what it all comes down to is a play for power, the power which rightly belongs to all of us individually. As much as they would like to delude us that they represent differences they are two sides of the same coin. Romney's Massachusetts healthcare plan is little different from what the Democrats are pushing. Any Democrat who will tell you they will bring ALL the troops home from Iraq is a liar, they can't, we are too entrenched(hell, we have negotiated and gotten permanent military basing in Iraq, with their(Iraqi) blessing). Both sides are falling all over each other trying to buy the election by giving us some supposedly needed "stimulus" package. Both sides lament our need to receive "investments" from China and the Middle Eastern oil states, but can't find there way to stop spending for their pet projects. And don't be fooled people, if it wasn't for China and the Saudis and the Kuwaitis and the Emirates bailing our asses out, we would be in a deep recession now because of our(the whole country's)addiction to credit. These are countries which have little liking for us(because of our fucking arrogance, maybe), but have economies which are not deep or mature enough to absorb the kind of money we are talking about. We can count our lucky stars(this time)our economy is still the biggest otherwise our days could be numbered. And these are countries, especially China, who the Democrats want to fuck with. Should we really fuck with a country which holds over a trillion dollars of our debt obligations? Do you guys understand the implications of this situation?
On another subject, while I was vacationing(Costa Rica is a wonderful country btw. All nature lovers owe it to yourselves to go at least once.)I thankfully did not watch much TV, but at the last place we stayed I was able to get some news from the tube and unfortunately mostly from ...you guessed it...Fox News Network. Holy Shit! I couldn't believe what I was watching. fcc, from our previous spot, while misinformed for the most part(mainly from getting his info from this source)got it 100% correct when he called this so-called news outlet, entertainment. It ain't news, but it sure was entertaining. I honestly have never watched this circus before, but it sure opens the eyes to how half of us get their thoughts spoon fed to them. Not much critical thinking here, but the bluster, man if we could just harness that energy we might be able to excise our need for Venezuelan oil. Probably not all our oil needs, but we could stop with Chavez.
As most of you know, I have little respect for either the Dems or the Reps mostly because if you listen to them carefully they speak of us in group terms. We are all separated into certain categories, the poor, the middle class, the rich, seniors, college students, soldiers, businesspeople, small businesspeople, African Americans, Native Americans, illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, Westerners, Easterners, Southerners, rural, urban, red states, blue states, it goes on and fucking on(divide and conquer?). But I ask you, when was the last time any of the (major)candidates talked of the individual citizen, the basic building block of our society, of our Constitution(they like to mention the Constitution, it makes us all warm and fuzzy, then they use it for toilet paper before our very sedated eyes). Their job is not to provide anything for us except to uphold and protect the contents of the Constitution.
My wife informed me today of prospective legislation in the state of Mississippi which would make it illegal for a restaurant to serve obese(relative term) people. The county Dallas is in had members of the liquor control board bust people for being drunk INSIDE a bar, regardless if they had a designated driver or not. California has made it illegal for an adult to smoke in their own car if a minor is also present(this would have gotten my Ma in major hot water). What is this country coming to. One funny side note for you csm, you had asked me previously about the situation with Christian scientists and healthcare for their children, which I will agree is a stumper for me as I am pulled in at least two different directions on this, but a funny thought occurred to me; with what I believe your take on evolution to be, the survival of the fittest, and their faith in divine healing, I would think you would leave them to their own devices and they just might die out, eh? I have said before when faced with evidence of dangerous stupidity, "well, at least they won't breed".
One last point, on Saturday night I witnessed most of the Republican debate at the Reagan Library and what CNN did to Ron Paul was atrocious. He hardly got a chance to say anything. I will admit he is a flawed candidate, but why the fuck have him on if just to make him look the fool. And if anyone would take up the cause of the individual and not just pay lip service to federalism, it would be Dr. Paul.
"...i don't believe this family/cult counts as christian any more than koresh in waco."
I understand this sentiment Coreyd, but who gets to make the decision as to who is christian and who is not? It would seem that maybe people would no longer be considered christian when they start acting wacky? But all belief in a non-corporeal being in charge of everything is wacky to me. Is Pat Robertson wacky enough to not be considered christian? Christian scientists? Snake handlers? Mormons? Who the fuck knows! If they call themselves christians and spout nonsense they find in the bible I personally, consider 'em christians.
i'm glad we can discuss that point, csm. i was starting 2 worry that you were holding me 2 lower standards, going easy on me, kid gloves and what not. ;)
the islamic establishment rejects the radical interpretation of the koran taken by today's jihadists.
reasonable folks seem 2 understand that "da terrorists" don't represent the establishment in any way. they have a radical interpretation of it.
in the buildup 2 wwii, the nazi movement appropriated nietzsche's philosophies 2 justify and "moralize" their movement. many would say they did the same sort of thing with christianity.
yet the discerning mind recognizes that neither freidrich nor christ would have endorsed such a perversion of their ideas.
i think each individual gets 2 make the decision as 2 who is christian and who is not, but that doesn't mean each individual gets 2 be right.
what i mean is, if we want 2 make informed decisions, we have 2 determine if the new idea is actually rooted in the old-
study nietzsche. decide 4 yourself if the nazi's perverted his ideas. ditto christ.
the hard part is being objective instead of subjective - subject 2 our grudges, our pain, our feelings on the idea/institution in question.
i understand that my perspective is incomplete. we all have our place on the chessboard of life, so 2 speak, but none of us have a complete perspective. something obscures our view. that's just part of being human.
i am relying on you (all of you) 2 provide me with your perspectives, 2 tell me what you can see from where you stand. when we can bridge that gap and provide a more unified perspective, we inch closer 2 da truth.
and that's where i want 2 be. :)
hi bawdy!
welcome back. hope you had a great vacation!
please tell your wife not 2 worry.
from what i can gather, the mississippi legislation was not intended 2 pass; it is a protest proposal, created by 3 cigarette smoking legislators 2 protest the creation of non-smoking zones in mississippi.
had me worried at first, too. i got my info from a couple mississippi bloggers closer 2 the action. i think it was on 'dispatches from the culture wars', but i'd have 2 check...
yep. here's the link.
So coreyd, are you then saying that the jihadists are not muslims? I have not heard anybody even hint at that. In point of fact, the talking heads keep saying that are fighting against muslim extremists - not just extremists.
Then you bring up the old standard Hitler/Nazi red herring, albeit with a Nietzschian twist (sounds like a Chubby Checker hit in bizarro world). Can't comment on the Nietzsche aspect of your notions (don't know much about his philosophies, actually), but there was a christian element to the nazi regime. It is not christianity that caused naziism, nor is naziism based on christianity, but Hitler was a christian. So, I don't equate Naziism with christianity... but I still call a spade a spade, if you will.
Then you say that "each individual" should be able to "make the decision as 2 who is christian and who is not." But that is weak. I'd agree that each individual gets to say whether or not he or she themself is christian, but not about whether anyone else is.
I admit that my view of the world is necessarily subjective - as is everyone else's. There is nothing objective to make a decision on when it comes to religion. Religiousness depends completely upon subjectivity for its existence because it has nothing objective upon which to base itself. So an objective view of christianity is that it should not exist. Subjectively? OK, different question.
I remain with my stated position: if someone claims to be christian, and is being sincere about it, (no absurdity, mocking, or taunting - like if I were to say I was a christian) then they are a christian. I see no other objective wand you can wave to make it any other way.
re: "muslim"? extremists
i think they believe they are. i think the world believes they are. and maybe 1/3rd of all living muslims, even.
bizarro superman think him REAL superman. or REAL-ER, maybe. doing the nietzschian twist--
instead of chubby checker singing, "come on baby, do the twist," it'd be, "zarathustra: god is dead!!" (beautiful picture ya painted, btw. bizarro world, i mean!)
anyways, from where i stand, the jihadists do not live up 2 the muslim ideal. so 4 me, they are not truly muslim. those are my standards, i guess.
in similar manner, i consider hitler a bizarro christian.
(hmmm. whatabout a bizarro jesus internet comic strip?...)
you would like nietzsche's works. he was kinda mad (literally) when he wrote 'em, but on the knife's edge of genius, 2. but i digress.
re: each individual
i'd say we each get 2 believe what we want, about ourselves, and about others. al gets 2 believe hilary is a villain. anon gets 2 believe atheists are a threat. you get 2 believe religion is bad for humanity (did i frame that appropriately?), etc.
if that's weak, it's because it's inconclusive. frustratingly subjective, as you indicated.
it's basically a rhetorical argument of definition, from which we derive differing policies of classification. so there. ;P
remember the jerk? scroll down a tad bit when ya get there. just a bit, really.
csm,
The claim of being a Christian plus sincerity isn't enough. It requires understanding as well. There are many people in America (and probably in other "christian" nations as well) who claim they are Christians, but have no idea what that actually means.
There are certain beliefs that are foundational to Christianity, just as there are with any other belief system (whether it be a religion, atheism, etc.). To claim to be a Christian without believing those foundational truths, no matter how much sincerity is involved, isn't Christianity at all. Maybe a deluded, personalized version of it, but not true Christianity at all.
The Bible specifically warns against wolves in sheeps' clothing, so it isn't just in the declaration. Jesus essentially said we can measure the veracity of the claim by the fruit that results from the person's life. In that vain, Hitler was not Christian at all (despite his membership in the Catholic church).
G, can't say I disagree with you about there being "many people in America...who claim they are Christians, but have no idea what that actually means." In my experience, this is most christians, actually.
Here's an example I hear time and again. "Oh, Adam and Eve is just a metaphor, it wasn't real" followed by "Jesus died for our sins"... well, if Adam and Eve never sinned then Jesus didn't need to die for it. It is kinda foundational to the whole belief system.
Of course, to an atheist, the whole concept of dying for the sins of humanity is rather stupid for an all-powerful god... but that goes off in another direction entirely...
Another thought here, too, G. By your measuring stick nobody is a christian, because everybody sins. And sins consistently, over and over again. Lie or cheat or steal or swear or covet or . . . and a sin is a sin is a sin. Or do you subscribe to the catholic notion of mortal and venial sins and Hitler committed moral sins?
It's a common misconception that becoming a Christian should somehow make you sinless. Rather, it means the person has accepted God's provision for their sin. That, of course, doesn't mean you can just walk forward at a Billy Graham crusade, say a few words with him, and then continue living as you used to (read Paul's comments in the book of Romans).
I certainly don't want to get into a 50-page theological discourse, but I believe you misunderstand "fruit" as sinlessness. But the Bible is clear that we are stuck with our sinful flesh for all of our days on earth. At the same time, I believe that this "fruit," while not specifically speaking of sin in your life, includes growth in that area over time (first the realization of an area of sin in your life, then repentance, and at some point complete freedom from that sin).
But primarily, I believe that the correct understanding of this "fruit," particularly in the area of leaders, is the type of people who result from their ministry. If someone's "ministry" results in entirely hateful, vindictive, judgmental people (basically, the opposite of the example we have in Jesus Christ), then you would say that the person is producing bad "fruit."
But I should qualify all of this with the Bible's declaration that only God knows the true heart of the person, so there are probably going to be many cases where we're wrong. I believe that in heaven (please bear with me), there will be a lot of surprise that some people are actually there, and even more surprise that others didn't make it.
I know that this is all part of a belief system that you reject. I'm just trying (as best I can) to give a proper Christian perspective.
I do understand all of that G (and thanks for recognizing my stance on christianity and theism in your response). My point, which you seem to recognize somewhat in your response, is someone's "fruit" is viewed by looking at their life and accomplishments as well as their foibles, downfalls, and problems. So if one calls Hitler "not a christian" because of the multiple sins against humanity, one could call anyone "not a christian" because of their multiple sins (against god, humanity, whatever), right? Otherwise you get into the problem of ranking sins (Hitler's are worse than Jim's - or whoever!) When you say later "there are probably going to be many cases where we're wrong" that speaks directly to my point! If someone sincerely calls themself a christian that is good enough for me because noone (not you, not me, not anyone on earth) knows whether they truly are or not... to the "believer" only god knows, and anyone here on earth saying "well, that person isn't a christian" has no basis for doing so - because, as you yourself have said, you are likely to be wrong!
Coreyd - sorry I haven't responded to your great post - as you can see, I got caught up in a discussion with g. Anyway, i like the idea of a Bizarro Jesus comic strip. If I had even a scintilla of drawing ability I'd attempt it myself!
Your post also will probably eventually steer me into researching Nietzsche - wasn't he also a linebacker with the Green Bay Packers?
And how can I have any argument with this --> "i'd say we each get 2 believe what we want, about ourselves, and about others." Well, maybe a small one because I think we should let people define themselves... but I can't say that I'd want to make people stop believing what they want!
And you framed me almost perfectly. The only word in "believe religion is bad for humanity" that I take issue with is "believe" because I hate that word. It strewn about so easily by people who put no thought into things before they "believe" them, so I try not to use it and when I do I usually put quotation marks around it...
oh, so THAT'S why you don't like "belief system"!! i get it now. : )
a bit of advice on nietzsche:
he's much easier 2 read about than 2 read.
actually, that's not quite right either. see, when you read thus spake zarathustra, it goes quickly and smoothly, parable by parable.
only afterwards, you know you missed out on some big part of the meaning. at least that's how it was with me.
part of that's translating from the german. another part is his looming madness. but mostly, it's because he was a very smart and learned man, and wrote with insight unique 2 him. imo.
and i'm pretty sure he wasn't 6'3", 235 lbs either. ;)
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