Saturday, January 12, 2008

Sweatshops for Jesus

A labor rights group alleged...that crucifixes sold in religious gift shops in the U.S. are produced under "horrific" conditions in a Chinese factory with more than 15-hour work days and inadequate food.

But I guess it's OK because those Christians have to pray to a graven image of their god being tortured.


G said...

We don't pray to graven images. We pray to God. And the only church I know of that still has the crucified Christ on their crosses is the Catholic church.

And it isn't ok. But remember that an allegation is not fact. And it seems that those who bought the crosses in bulk went to some length to make sure that there weren't any sweatshop conditions. One church even pulled theirs pending an investigation.

It doesn't sound like any of them were knowingly selling sweatshop produced items.

Al said...

Athiest always seem so bitter and angry against at the religous community. They seem to have this uncontrollable urge to belittle Jesus and the church at every turn. They more than any others must discuss relgion. The web is just filled with pissed off athiest or maybe it is pissed on athiest? I have never understood why they get so angry at people they believe just to be simply sick? Your next president will be a Jesus follower. Let the pissing begin.

csm said...

Who's angry, Al? Not me. Bemused? Yes. Aghast? Frequently. Sarcastic? Yes, thank you, that I am. Angry? Sometimes, but no, not now... not in quite a while actually.

I do enjoy pointing out hypocrisy though. And making crucifixes in a sweat shop smack of it!

And yes, I'm sure that every president in my lifetime will be a Jesus follower of some sort or another. Are you saying that Is worthy of a piss?

G said...

It would only be hypocrisy if they KNEW they were buying and selling crosses that were being made in sweatshops or (on the part of the manufacturer) if they claim to be Christians. I don't know that either case is true in this situation.



I found something you might find amusing:

Ceroill said...

Just finished reading a very long but very interesting op ed in the NYT, about 'The Moral Instinct'. Here's the link:

This seemed as good a place to share it as any other. I hope y'all enjoy the read as much as I did.

csm said...

Thanks for that, Bawdy. I particularly enjoyed the Scalia (with his bible) and the Bush (I think) with the motto "Lest They Forget, We Will Remind" re" 9/11



I have chastised myself just recently for generalizing a point and I was correctly called on the carpet for it. Your quote:

"Atheists ALWAYS seem so bitter and angry against the religious community. They seem to have this uncontrollable urge to belittle Jesus and the church at every turn."(emphasis mine)

I defy you, sir, to find a quote or passage of mine where any of this is true. I am as much of an atheist as any here but I would defend unto the death any person's right to believe any way they wish and I try to have the utmost respect for any such views. I would like to direct you to the previous thread were I was in agreement with g(and still am) that the story provided never mentioned the perps were Christians or involved with any Christian group. When using the words "always" or "never" special care should "always" be given.

G said...


I was under the impression that you fell more into the agnostic camp. Was I wrong about that, or is it just semantic habits?


Nope, Bob(ceroill), is the agnostic. I am an atheist. I believe life is a crapshoot without rhyme or reason. I believe I could walk out my front door and get hit with a meteor and no intelligent being would have a thing to do with it. I believe the thoughts many pious people have are desparate attempts to hang on to something they may have a modicum of control over while I revel in the freedom and exhilaration that I am forging my life, many times swimming upstream, without any safety net or benevolent being to wipe off the dust and the tears. I believe in a "life force energy" which I kinda equate to "nature", but as far as intelligence, I see no evidence. But again, I realize most have religious thoughts and to me they deserve as much respect as I hope my thoughts will receive. I hope this answers your query.

Ceroill said...

Yep. I'm the resident agnostic. I'll state my position a few ways: 1- Since I have no personal knowledge of the Divine, I cannot say whether the Divine exists or not.

2- I do not think it is possible to say one way or the other without direct personal knowledge. I cannot accept hearsay evidence on such a monumental subject, and as far as I can tell, that is all that I have ever come across, or that anyone I know has ever come across.

3- However, remember that while I cannot say yes, I also cannot say no. I cannot categorically deny the Divine, and so have respect for all beliefs and all honest believers.

csm said...

Reasonable, as always, Bob. I'm glad you continue to hand around with us here.

And I do want to clarify what atheism is. It is not "knowing that there are no gods" as some claim. After all, what exactly is 100% know-able? Atheism is the lack of belief in any gods because of insufficient evidence. No evidence equals an a-theistic view (that is a prefix meaning "not"; theistic believing in a deity).

By that definition, you're an atheist, too, Bob - but I will not attempt to define you!

Ceroill said...

Quite so, quite so. But then at one point in my life, I claimed (humorously I hope) to be a Zen Taoist Bruja. So far nobody here has defined me in any ways that I object to.

csm said...

Bruja? As in, witch? C'mon, at least call yourself a warlock, man! (tongue firmly in cheek)

Ceroill said...

Good point, it should be Brujo for a guy. In particular (at the time) it was referring to the various books of Carlos Castendeda. Pretty wild and fun stuff to read, though as I understand it was discovered he just made it all up.