Tuesday, August 18, 2009

Dissent or Stupidity

The right wing talking points about the jackasses disrupting town hall meetings are that (1) this is just Americans dissenting and speaking out like our forefathers did and (2) that the Democrats are calling this unpatriotic.

Both assertions are absurd. Dissent is welcome. Compare what is happening in town hall meetings to the previous administration who interviewed people and kept dissenters out of W's events. Seems to me that the Democrats are inviting discussion. What they are not inviting is the insipid, putrid, obnoxious behavior of many of these "dissenters." Since when is yelling "Heil Hitler" at a Jew patriotic dissent? And who actually thinks it is a good idea to allow weapons to be allowed into a meeting where emotions will undoubtedly run high? Republicans!

Then we get to the stupid claim that Democrats, and even President Obama, are calling dissent unpatriotic. This is a lie. Republicans seem to believe that if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it. Unfortunately, they seem to be correct about that. Truth is, no Democrat has called voicing dissent or displeasure at town hall meetings (or anywhere else for that matter) unpatriotic. Oh, some have called screaming and shouting and lying and Hitlerizing (this is what I call non-Internet examples of Godwin's Law) unpatriotic... and they're right... err, I mean, correct!

By the way, it is quite likely that the Hitlerizing was adopted as a popular right wing tactic after that blowhard pig-boy Rush Limbaugh did it (although there are examples of it occuring before Rush, it kinda blew up after he oinked it out on the radio).


Right Wing Gunner said...

Ha Ha Ha, well you left wing looney tunees are back at it. lets see, demonstrating against Bush, calling HIM Hitler, suppressing speech on Ivy league campuses and constantly screaming about a war the looney tine left help get us in is patriotic dissent.
Oh, and referring to our military as murderers and the commander as a traitor? Cheering when they believed Cheney may have been injured in an attack? Egad man, what a bunch of hate-mongers!

Of course, I don't hear anything about the war anymore. Hmmm, could it be war is really OK with the left, it was more about hatred of a man?


Bush was a traitor(to the Constitution) and I have already asked that anti-war dissenter question. But looking at your moniker, I would bet you don't have a problem with the war either, so wouldn't that be the pot calling the kettle black, but for a different reason?

csm said...

Hey Gunner, I agree that anyone who actually did any of those things is definitely on the looney side - - with the exception of protesting against the war in Iraq. Attacking a sovereign nation who never attacked us is not a good use of our military, American and Iraqi lives, nor our tax dollars. Protesting that was not crazy at all. Were I to call Bush Hitler for doing that, then lump me in with the right wing shitheads at the town hall meetings (well, maybe not exactly since I'm not out at meetings interrupting, haranguing, and trying to stop sane discussion)

I defy you to show me concrete examples like we have with the right wing nutbags interrupting meetings set up for civil discourse.

And if you actually read this blog and its comments you would have seen me (and others) criticize the war in Afghanistan.

Right Wing Gunner said...

Columbia Students Interrupt Conservative Speech with Chaotic Protest
October 5, 2006

by Tara Sweeney

Last night the Columbia College Republicans hosted a speech by members of the Minutemen Project, the conservative “vigilance operation” that patrols the Mexican border and monitors illegal immigration in America.

The above is really surpressing free-speech. Now I defy you to show me where right wing nutbags are stifling speech? That is what townhalls are for....to hear the people? They are invited to speak. I didn't see any T-shirts claiming they were right wing so they could be I or D but why don't we just call them Americans.

Don't look now, but you don't have enough of your own party to pass healthcare so are the Bluedogs right wing nutbags too?

You guys are always looking to blame someone else for your party's incompetence.

csm said...

OK, Gunner, your example is an interesting one. I can come out 100% against what happened at Columbia. Of course, more details would be useful. And using your own argument, the disrupting students are not identified as left or D. They might be conservative Republicans!

Furthermore, and even though I am on record as opposing violence and disruption of free speech, your example is far from what has recently transpired with town hall meetings held by elected officials to communicate and get feedback from their constituents. The current outrageous behavior flouts public discussion and decorum. Americans for Prosperity has put together a bus tour with 170 stops in 13 states during the recess. Busing people in to these meetings to wreak havoc is a right wing tactic that is against the purpose of these meetings.

It is not the left-leaning folks who voted for President Obama, who spoke on the election trail about reforming health care, that are trying to disrupt civil discourse on health care. You know it, I know it, and the American people know it. USA Today reports conservatives stirring to action at town hall meetings.

Anonymous said...

Liberal activists have started to plan their counterattack on the conservative opponents of health care reform; now, the AFL-CIO says it will get involved, too. In a memo to presidents of national and international unions, AFL-CIO President John Sweeney called on affiliate unions to launch a 30-day campaign of activism in support of health care reform--and, perhaps most significantly, to turn out union members to town-hall meetings. Part of the plan is to "organize major union participation in Congressional Town Hall meetings, both live and virtual 'Tele-Town Hall Meetings. A list of these meetings will be sent to you as soon as we receive it along with the list of approximately 50 high priority districts," the memo states.

Labor unions have traditionally provided the foot soldiers in Democratic politics, waving signs, phone banking and turning out votes...now they'll play in town-halls, where conservatives have been outperforming liberals in attendance, shouting down reform and generally dominating both the meetings and the national news coverage of the White House's reform effort.

Liberal activists have one significant advantage over conservatives in the race to turn out more supporters to these town-halls: they can coordinate attendance with Democratic representatives, and they've worked with these lawmakers before. Earlier this week, Health Care for America Now!, a liberal coalition of which the AFL-CIO is a part, issued its guidelines for the new town-hall fight; the AFL-CIO's campaign, however, signifies a targeted effort to win these battles in the swing-vote districts conservatives have gone after.

csm said...

That is an interesting turn of events. Now it will be instructive as we watch how these "liberal activists" behave as compared to the unruly and idiotic "conservative activists" of late.

Lou said...

Great example Gunner. These same spastics have shouted down other speakers at Columbia. The Loony Left were doing the same thing at the anti-Bush rallies where some of the most hateful speech you could imagine took place. I was at one! Suddenly, they have become the polite police. Funny stuff!

Don't forget ACORN & MOVE-ON they are the IBM of political organization. And what what of it? Obama has been sending in his unions and the his own "Organizing for Obama---oops---I mean America" organization.

Funny how the LL like to demonize the right for using the same tactics. Since its failing to sway anyone he has gone to blaming repubs. Loving the change so far? It must have something to do with the man-crush they have on Obama.

Anonymous said...

It is because this new president is outraged at anyone who might dare to disagree with him. He apparently has had yes men surrounding him for years.
In reality it has been the liberal activist have been out in full force with the strong-arm tactics attempting to shut down dissent by portraying the citizens as racist Obama-haters. That tends to be their modus operandi.

csm said...

What color is the sky in your world folks? I remember the Bush "free speech zones" and carefully selected audiences whenever that dumb ass traveled. Keep on banging your sad little conservative drums with the hope that some day your party will have another idea. Right now, the only idea is "we're against whatever that illegal black man in the white house is for."

Sad. Truly sad.

Cowcharge said...

Racist, racist, racist. That's all anyone says when they hear any criticism of Obama. Comments designed SPECIFICALLY to shut down debate and force anyone who disagrees to defend their own character rather than their viewpoint. Standard tactics these days. Believe it or not, his color (half-white, so if we insult Obama on the basis of race, we insult both black and white, duh) wouldn't have stopped me from voting for him, had he been honest, competent, tolerant of other races himself (Wright and Cambridge, anyone?), and not out to spend this country into the stone age.

Curiously (being the Messiah and all), it seems to have taken a very short time for Obama's approval ratings to start plunging... 52% and dropping, according to Gallup. I will refrain from saying "I told you so" until after they get below 50%.

Oh, and the link to The Raw Story? Talk about rabid, fear-mongering mischaracterization. People are not going to the areas around town hall meetings carrying guns (they certainly aren't carrying their weapons INTO those meetings) in order to shoot Dems, nor are they there to "impose (their) view at the point of a gun.” They are making a statement by exercising a Constitutional right. One that they rightly fear being taken away.

csm said...

Cowcharge? More like cow patties!

People are carrying guns to these meetings to inflame, incite, and spread fear among the toothless. Only a backwoods, idiotic, redneck fuckhead carries a weapon to (don't care if they get in or not) a meeting where the president of the United States will be. IMHO they did it with the hope that they would be arrested or stripped of their weapon and then they could spread more lies about Obama coming to take their guns. Stupid, stupid, stupid people.

And in case anyone cares, I am a proponent of responsible gun ownership - and own guns myself.

Lou said...

"I will refrain from saying "I told you so" until after they get below 50%."

Cowcharge it is not appropriate to bring out the "I told you so". He has done it!

I went to my local townhall yesterday afternoon. Conveniently held at 2PM to keep the crowds down. The only organized efforts were Obamas personal lobbying group under the name "Organizing for America" handing out their signs.

And yes Cowcharge, the race card was thrown around by anyone speaking against Obamacare, which was the vast majority. It got heated all due to Obamas group attempting to drown out anyone speak against the legislation, which our politician has not read! Thats just asking too much so it is up to us to read it for him.

Anonymous said...

Lou you really should not be surprised. They attempt to place blame on everyone other than themselves for the dissent against the plan. They have attacked the MDs, Republicans, Insurance companies and of course the conservatives. They paint them as racist, un-american, misinformed, fringe and Nazis.

They have the votes so what is the real problem? They are scared. They know they will screw it up and need someone to come along that they place the blame on then as well.

What would anyone expect from a guy with his friends/ideology and his complete lack of experience in running even a grocery store?