Monday, January 4, 2010

Un-Constitutional Constitutions

Texas' Bill of Rights Section 4:

" RELIGIOUS TESTS: No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Tennessee's Bill of Rights: Article 9: Section 2.

" No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

South Carolina's Constitution, Article 4 Section 2:

" Person denying existence of Supreme Being not to hold office. No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."

North Carolina's Constitution, Article 6 Sec. 8:

" Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God...."

Maryland's Bill of Rights: Article 36:

" That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come."

Article Six of the United States Constitution: religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.



Man, am I glad I live in a Western state. We aren't perfect out here, but I think we think more like the Founder's than most others.

Mike aka Dragonfly said...

Bawdy, the founders fought as much as we do today. When you make a claim we follow the founders you need to specify which founder. Jefferson wasn't even a writer of the Constitution but I hear him quoted more than any other especially when it comes to the great "Wall". Washington/Hamilton were are great odds with Jefferson/Madison back in the day. Hatred, distrust and backstabbing were the tools of the day!
I always float back to Pink Floyd when I hear the wall quoted from the Constitution. That's my 2 cents worth.

If you read the beliefs of many of the founders, you would find atheist had very little respect and they probably would have agreed with the Supreme being clause. I believe Paine had 6 mourners at his funeral? Careful for what you wish for.


"When you make a claim we follow the founders you need to specify which founder."

C'mon, mike, you know as well as I do the West is generally more libertarian than the rest of the country. By Founders, I mean the group as a whole using the product they produced, the Constitution. Did all of the Founders agree with everything in the Constitution? Of course not. Did they ratify it(along with a majority of the states)? Yes.

But there is little doubt the Founders had little use for a strong central government as they were throwing off just such a monstrosity with the Revolution. If the power remained in the states, like it was supposed to happen, at this point there just might have been an atheist refuge somewhere in this country.

And of course atheists weren't respected in the good ol' days, right along with homosexuals and witches, it could cost you your life. Ignorance will always be with us, just like poverty and injustice.

We haven't given federalism much of a chance these last oh, hundred years and the way we are taking now sure won't have a happy ending.

Mike aka Dragonfly said...

Washington and Hamilton were Federalist and very much in favor of a strong central government. The constitution is vague in many ways, purposely, which is why even from the beginning there was much disagreement on the interpretation. Hamilton was a master in this area of finding the loopholes.

You can take the constitution and defend just about any position.

If you just use the controversial Roe v wade as an argument, the founders would have never supported such a measure but there it is today. Today, we claim it is there.

Now, moving on we are sliding into socialism which is what the great Woodrow Wilson warned the DNC about even in 1910. It, too is now supported by the constitution.

csm said...

I think veneration of the founding fathers is ridiculous. Yes, for their time and place, they did a fine job of crafting a sound formation to our country. But to worship them as infallible (not necessarily saying anyone here is doing that) is crazy.

And Mike, who gives a shit how many folks were at Thomas Paine's funeral? Jesus (if you believe he existed) was executed as a criminal, and look at all the sheeple who worship him.


And if you believe in federalism, and I do, then yes Roe v Wade is a travesty. States should have been the battleground for this issue. Some states would have invariably legalized it. Just like some states are gonna legalize marijuana. The problem is getting the federal government to do what it was mandated to do in the beginning and that was to protect the Union(the territory, not our interests) and to protect our inherent rights as citizens. I have posted before the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the Bill of Rights are the most trampled upon. The Ninth is open to some speculation as to it's full meaning, but the Tenth is not. And man do I like the 14th too!

verification word: dicsked



Of course you have a problem with the veneration of the Founding Fathers; they are your biggest impediment.


OK, mike, explain to me how socialism is supported by the Constitution. The Congressional abdication of it's duty and the expanding power of the Presidency and the judicial blindness of the Supreme Court has a lot to do with the socialistic spread, but I fail to see how the document itself has anything to do with it, And Woody and Teddy along with the rest of the Progressives were the beginning of this shit trail, it didn't start with FDR.

The Founders were fighting human nature when they concocted the Constitution. They knew the propensities of people and power. That is why they left the federal government with so little power over the individual.

csm said...

What a crazy thing to say, Bawdy. My biggest impediment is a bunch of dead guys? Really? Then I must be doing spiffy!

Frankly, I am a fan (not a worshipper) of the Thomases (Paine and Jefferson).

And Mike is a mind reader - and not to mention a mind reader of dead guys. He know that all the founders would oppose Roe v. Wade. Amazing.

Mike aka Dragonfly said...

My dear Bawdy, I never make a claim I personally believe Socialism is supported by the Constitution. I feel certain The Big O could make a case by using the vague terms implemented by the document. It was not the intent or the desired outcome of these men who worked for a living and did not give away their wealth. That does not imply they did not help out the poor as I am certain csm would make the jump towards.
Dragonfly is quite astute at the reading of minds. Even as I type this I am reading csm's and I seize upon his desire for a cold one in the freezing Houston suburbs....ooooooohhhhh.
No really my major is college required I do much study, reading and analysis of political history. csm could not make a case in that culture, with their moral frame work and their value on children. I say without hesitation that they would not have upheld R v W no more than they would bring Islamic terrorist in to our court systems.
Interesting side note since csm hold the T brothers in high regard. TJ found the Muslims to be barbaric and uncouth bunch and would never give them citizenship in our nation much less entertain their acts in an American court. TP, contrary to popular belief was more of a deist than an atheist. His consistent attacks on the religious found him in the end to be practically friendless despite his practical writings. Abigail Adams found him to be and unkept and uncouth man.
To answer your question csm, I find it sad that any man dies and only has 5-6 individuals to say goodbye to the departed.
Dragonfly looking for a warm place to gather for the winter……..

csm said...

No fan of barbarism I, either. On the other hand, I kinda go for the uncouth! And regarding that cold one, you may be damn near to convincing me on your mind-reading abilities...