Sunday, June 22, 2008

Is This Really What the Right is so Afraid of?

Congratulations to Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon, who were finally able to marry in California on Tuesday after over 50 years together. It was a happy and historic day -- a huge victory in same-sex couples' fight to be recognized as equal under California's state Constitution.


coreydbarbarian said...

this picture speaks volumes.

yet the cynic in me thinks the homophobic-right aren't done fighting the issue. at least 2 counties in california have stopped performing marriages altogether. (sarcasm)so very mature of 'em. (/sarcasm)

my mother brought up the photo in conversation while i was visiting her this weekend. even she realizes there are no justified arguments for inequality.


California voters will get a chance to fuck this up in November. The big question then will be the legal status of these couples who get married before the referendum.

Ceroill said...

Oh, good grief. I find it hard to think of anything that seems to be more of a non-issue.

On a divergent topic for a moment: Rest In Peace George Carlin. You're no longer in the middle of this mess, and the world is a bit dimmer for the loss of you.

csm said...

Wow... I hadn't heard about George. He will be missed.

Here is a link to the Chicago Tribune coverage of his passing.


Yeah, George was a great one!


Hear is an article about George from Reason:

The Cunning Linguist
Remembering George Carlin's literary genius

Marty Beckerman | June 23, 2008

Every obituary for George Carlin will cite his "Seven Words You Can Never Say On TV" routine in the first paragraph, if not the first sentence. The monologue led to Carlin's arrest and a 1978 Supreme Court obscenity case. (Carlin admitted that he was "perversely...proud of" the federal legal drama that his dirty words caused.)

But Carlin's comedy was not simply about dirty words; it was about the English language, and our collective fear of it. He used more expletives than Howard Stern, but his obsession was linguistics, not lasciviousness. As Carlin told CNN in 2004, "[I]f I hadn't chosen the career of being a performer, I think linguistics would have been a natural area that I'd have loved-to teach it, probably...Language has always fascinated me."

He was especially fascinated with the blunting of language for comfort's sake. Carlin ridiculed our watering-down of sexual descriptions and ethnic categories, not to mention our mourning clich├ęs, all of which he believed were the real-life manifestations of George Orwell's "Newspeak," utilized to obscure reality, numb the mind, and discourage criticism. As much as Carlin loathed theology, war, greed, and hypersensitivity, he was most disgusted when religous puritans, the military, corporations, and P.C. "classroom liberals" mangled the language for the purpose of soothing the masses. When I saw Carlin perform in the ‘90s, the biggest laugh of the night came from his observation that "the unlikely event of a water landing," discussed in every preflight safety lecture, sounds suspiciously like "crashing into the fucking ocean."

In fact, Carlin was disgusted with the mangling of English for any reason. He hated anyone who pronounced forte as "for-tay," insisted that "no comment is a comment," and advised us that "unique needs no modifier; very unique, quite unique, more unique, real unique, fairly unique, and extremely unique are wrong and they mark you as dumb, although certainly not unique." For all of his lifelong ranting against conservatism, Carlin was a diehard traditionalist when it came to grammar and vocabulary.

This mastery of the language allowed Carlin to craft his puns ("Soft rock music isn't rock, and it ain't's just soft," "I thought it would be nice to get a job at a duty-free shop, but it doesn't sound like there's a whole lot to do in a place like that"), but also gave him the ability to see how we pad our existences with pleasant lies. In Carlin's mind, language should not be safe, and neither should life. Children, he argued in his final HBO special, this year's It's Bad for Ya, should play with sticks, not have "play dates" under the ever-watchful eyes of overprotective, micro-managing parents. (He had previously complained, with his trademark growl, "We've taken all the fun out of childhood just in the interest of saving a few lives.")

Near the end of his career, Carlin was more bitter than funny—It's Bad for Ya is a righteous tirade that provokes more nods than laughs—but he never lost his unparalleled ability to play with words. He deconstructed the phrases that we use absentmindedly, exposing our hypocrisies—and our human condition—in the process. He was a comic genius because he was a linguistic master. As Carlin said in his most famous routine: "I thank you for hearing my words... They're my work, they're my play, they're my passion. Words are all we have, really."

Marty Beckerman is the author of Dumbocracy, which will be released this September. His website is

I have seen many, many more musical acts than comedians in my lifetime, but I did see George in Tahoe in the '90's. I agree with Mr. Beckerman's assessment about his late work. I came away from the Tahoe show thinking that George was an angry man, very vitriolic. It was kinda sad really, but there were some kernals of greatness even then.

Anony Mouse said...

Obama is the homosphobic right now?
It is a black day when a Supreme Court led by a guy who spends half the day looking at porn can add to our constitution and claim that marriage is a constitutional right and in the process ignore the will of the people. No problem here with gay marriage but don't hide behind our constitution and allow the people to decide the issue. Homosexuals are not the only group who cannot marry even though you would think so.

Part of me can't help but wonder why they don't just live their life and keep the government out of their affairs. If marriage is this important hold their own cermeonies. Why do they want the government in thir bedrooms?

coreydbarbarian said...

point by point:

-obama has taken a bad position on gay marriage, imo. BIG difference between that and the right's vitriol. even anony mouse has to concede that much.

-half the day? really?? i suppose you have proof? sounds like hyperbole.

-looking at porn is not a crime. thank god, or i'd never get any, imaginary or otherwise.

-ignoring the will of the people, eh? go re-read the federalist papers, and come back with an understanding of how the minority must be protected from the majority in some cases.

-allow the people to decide? like with slavery? "the people" are not what you think they are.

-homosexuals aren't the only ones who can't marry??? are you serious? the only place you can go with this is kids, cousins and farm animals, anony mouse. that's apples to oranges.

as for your last paragraph, here are a few things to consider:

-have you ever visited a loved one in the hospital? ever filed your taxes jointly and enjoyed the tax break for being in a monogamous, committed relationship? ever needed to utilize your partners health insurance program?

there are plenty of reasons why gays want to be treated equally.
another reason is to be recognized as fully human, equal to any other man (or woman).

it's supposed to be liberty, and justice, for ALL. not just those who agree with the fearful majority.

csm said...

Well said, Corey!



There have already been churchs who are willing to marry homosexual couples; it is the recognization of these marriages which is the sticking point. The government(all levels)should recognize a civil union on equal footing with everybody else and leave marriage to the respective religions. If your religion(or sect)detests gays, don't marry them; there are plenty of other religions(or sects)which will and I would have to believe gay men and lesbians would already be included in these congregations.

Anony Mouse said...

I thought I would get a better argument than this.

"looking at porn is not a crime."

Who said anything about crime? Try doing it on any other company’s time and see how long you keep your job. Look at porn on your own time not in the courthouse.

"allow the people to decide? like with slavery? "the people" are not what you think they are."

Then I have decided McCain is best for the minority. Election is now over. We just rewrite the constitution as we see fit? No need to read the Federalist papers. Marriage is not a right it is a privilege. Also, blacks are quite offended at homosexuals who compare their situation with slavery and rightly so. Try to be a little more realistic and sensitive.

"homosexuals aren't the only ones who can't marry???"

Correct, try polygamist. You bounced all around it.

You finally hit the point; the real reason homosexuals want marriage. Monetary benefits. Yes in the media it is love, and a relationship but the real reason they want government approval is for the monetary benefits. That is not a good reason for me personally. The will of the people should prevail and the homosexuals can continue on without government interference. Let the states decide since they pay the bills.

Obama and I agree on this one.


Heterosexual couples "continuing on", as you say, is different than homosexual couples "continuing on" because the difference our official secular government puts on these two faces of love relationships and does not signify an equal arrangement when most everything else in these relationships is equal. And since marriage is basically a religious rite, why should this arrangement hold so much sway with our secular government?

Civil unions are the way to go. Everyone who is already married should be given one in the state they call home and marriage should be just that- a religious rite to sancitfy the relationship in the eyes of their divinity. Couples could have one and not the other or they could opt for both. This to me is a scenario where all should be happy. Religions would not be forced to marry those they don't want to and couples who just want to have the financial benefits(and they wouldn't be just homosexuals, I'll bet)could just get the governmentally recognized civil unions. I have posted this before, but I don't see why this shouldn't make everybody happy.

csm said...

And I'd have no problem with folks who want a civil union of more than two people, which handles the polygamists.

coreydbarbarian said...

anony mouse, wtfru talking about??
you rant about "...a Supreme Court led by a guy who spends half the day looking at porn..." and follow up with this: "Try doing it on any other company’s time and see how long you keep your job. Look at porn on your own time not in the courthouse."

you must be confusing the california supreme court with the 9th circuit, and the chief justice of the supreme court with chief judge alex kozinski (of the 9th circuit).

further, you must be confusing funny videos about horny donkeys with porn, and you must be confusing files on his HOME server with a computer at the courthouse, where you assume he watches said file.

mouse, you need to get your facts straight before you start saying such stupid shit.

"Try to be a little more realistic and sensitive."

okay, how's this? gays are abused, ridiculed and even murdered everyday in america, much like blacks were, and ALL because of perceived inferiority. that is realistic AND sensitive, you fucking asshat.

as for polygamy, i say go for it. as long as they are all consenting adults, that is.

"...the real reason homosexuals want marriage..."

fuck you, and fuck your "marriage is a privilege" line of bullshit.


--mad props to george carlin (rip) for teaching me all those pretty words. here's my favorite, from george:

"rat shit, bat shit,
dirty old twat.
sixty-nine assholes
tied in a knot.
hooray, lizard-shit,

Anony Mouse said...

You never know if ludicrous statements are made from just ignorance on the subject or if the individual is just a butt wipe. I like to assume ignorance to offer benefit of the doubt. Most folks have never found there father swinging from a rope simply because he was black. Most have never been kicked out of a restaurant because they were niggers. Most have never faced death threats simply because they attempted to register to vote or just for public entertainment. Most have never watched as a whole town exonerated a nigger killer knowing full well he was guilty. Most folks have never faced all of these realities under their NEW found freedom under the constitution. These were now the good days for black America.

Yes, my people were suppose to be grateful for their new situation because we were free to leave the filth ridden dung houses of the plantations and we no longer had to slave 18 hour days in the hot sun under the whips of the task masters. We were no longer being ripped out of our home nation; being sold to cruel slave traders and shipped off to foreign lands leaving their families behind. Yes, we were now truly a blessed people. This didn’t happen to a few blacks here and there but to almost all blacks.

Have you ever sat in a job interview knowing full well after looking in the eyes of the interviewer that your blackness would keep you from the job? Have you lived in poverty for most of your life because companies with good jobs assume you are no more than a lazy nigger?

Blackness is quite a difficult attribute to hide unlike homosexuality. I have no choice in my blackness. That is a fact that remains unchallenged. However many argue and with data to back their argument that homosexuality is a choice. Many have successfully made the transformation. I can’t change my color nor would I if I had the chance. To blow off the days of slavery with such a weak comparison is like comparing a firecracker to a nuclear device. CB makes the claim homosexuals are killed daily and that the comparison is warranted. I would be tremendously interested in these daily stories. An occasional story here and there doesn’t equal the systematic attack on an entire race of people. My suggestion is to read a book since you obviously are not black and therfore have no clue.

CB resort to the personal attack indicates she has already lost the battle. Will you be breaking out the nigger reference next?


No group's struggles to achieve the freedoms which are rightfully ours are ever the same as any other group's. That being said, homosexuals have had a struggle to acquire the same standing as heterosexuals in the eyes of our society. That cannot be denied. That also doesn't make the ones standing in their way the good guys.

coreydbarbarian said...

mouse, you seem to get confused easily, so i'll try and go slow.

here's your original statement:
"..don't hide behind our constitution and allow the people to decide the issue."

to which i responded: "allow the people to decide? like with slavery?"

then you run off chasing tangents, accusing me of conflating the black struggle with the gay struggle, and ranting about your supposed "blackness" and whatnot. get back to the point.

the constitution did not grant blacks equal status originally, and if it were up to "the people", they never would have achieved it.
how conveniently you forget these facts.

as to your question, "Will you be breaking out the nigger reference next?" i'd say, no, asshat covers your type rather well. besides, you already ran the word into the ground while you were pretending to be black.


Man am I getting old. I was going to congratulate you, corey, for asshat, but a little research on the expletive shows you are not the originator. Too bad, cool word.

coreydbarbarian said...

did you happen to catch the meaning of the perjorative R-CIS?
it's similar, yet somewhat more, uhm, refined. ;-D

csm said...

A sad tale of a man being murdered just because he is gay, and the murderer getting less than 3 years.

And there is a nice picture of recto-cranial inversion at this link.

Anony Mouse said...

Well I was wrong. Butt wipe it is. You guys with the keyboard courage always amuse me.
So I cant be black because of my name? Not enough rapper lyrics in the paragraphs butt wipe? Do you have anything more than keyboard courage. You don't because you are a wanna be who will never be so cuddle up with Rosy palm and dream of what you can never have.
Sweet Dreams Butt wipe.

So where is the post for our daily gay murderer butt wipe?

CSM your post is about a man who punched a gay man with no attention of killing him. I agree he should have gotten more than 2.5 years but the same thing happened a few years ago between two fathers of child hockey payers. One dad is dead from a punch and the other dad got less than 5 years if I recall properly.

coreydbarbarian said...

glad i could amuse you, mousey.
if you really want the truth, google hate crimes and do your own research. there are many sites dedicated to exposing the hatred in america.
also, you might benefit from watching this.

coreydbarbarian said...

damn, most of the links on that site are dead. regardless, there are plenty of sites dedicated to hate crimes against gays. i'm sure you could find them, if you were actually interested.

i wonder if you would've understood my point better if i'd said, "gays are abused, ridiculed and/OR murdered everyday in america." somehow, i doubt it.

Ceroill said...

mouse, I'd like to share a personal anecdote that has nothing to do with the current topic, but is in connection with you being black or not.

Many years ago a certain black friend of mine got a phone call from a locally produced black talk show. He had a reputation as an expert on comic books, and they wanted to do a story on the disparity in racial representation in superheroes.

When they asked him why he thought there was such a difference, he replied that white superheroes sold better, rather than making any claims about politically motivated reasons. There was a brief pause before the person on the phone asked, "Are you sure you're black?". They might have been slightly confused also because he did not exhibit the speech patterns that were commonly (though not universally) seen in members of the black community of the day. That is, he didn't 'sound black'.
I've always found that little incident amusing, myself, and I know he did. "Are you sure you're black..."
By the way, his reply to that was a simple, "The last time I looked", before hanging up on them.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled political hashing.

coreydbarbarian said...

yeah, but...
how many black folks do you know who would actually say, "It is a black day when..."??
i'm just sayin'.

i will admit that it is possible that more than one person might post as anony mouse on this blog within a few weeks of each other, but what are the odds that they would share so many subtle similarities? (barbarian, cb, she, a marked propensity toward the ol bait & switch (lure em in with almost rational statements, then follow up with troll-ish hate, just to get a rise out of em), etc.

i've been wrong before, but so far, this anony mouse sure acts like the last (fcc) one.

Ceroill said...

Actually I don't think I know anyone who's ever used the phrase 'black day'. I've heard it in old films, read it in old books, but it's a very archaic phrase nowadays. Isn't it?

csm said...

Oh, it would indeed be a black day if fcc were to darken our doorstep here at The Serenity of Reason... or, as you say, maybe he already has?