Friday, February 26, 2010

Them There Atheists Are Haters

Some conservative commentators are accusing the Obama administration of inviting "hate groups" into the White House by holding a meeting with a coalition of secularist and atheist groups.

Officials from the Justice and Health and Human Services departments met Friday with representatives of the Secular Coalition for America, an umbrella group that includes American Atheists and the Council for Secular Humanism. The coalition called it "the first time in history a presidential administration has met for a policy briefing with the American nontheist community."

President Barack Obama was not scheduled to make an appearance at the meeting, nor were any policy changes to be announced, McClatchy news service reported.

But that didn't stop a number of religious conservative groups from attacking the meeting as a sign the president has an anti-religious agenda.

"It is one thing for Administration to meet with groups of varying viewpoints, but it is quite another for a senior official to sit down with activists representing some of the most hate-filled, anti-religious groups in the nation," said Council Nedd, chairman of the religious advocacy group In God We Trust.

You see, just because a group doesn't believe in a mythical sky Daddy they get called names like hate-filled. But many of these religious mother fuckers are more hate-filled than any atheist or humanist I've ever met.

But I guess it is OK for the White House to consult "religious leaders" before a speech to Muslims... or for the president to meet the Dalai Lama... or to meet with prominent religious leaders on torture... or to spend over an hour talking and praying with a group of 20-some leaders of America's diverse religious communities...

No, meeting with the deluded is fine... just don't meet (and not even the president, only members of his staff) with the reasonable.

It makes me angry (if not exactly hate-filled).



American atheists are Americans first. We are not beholden to any divine spirit. How does that work for the religious? If they are true to their god(s), wouldn't America have to run second to the divine spirit?

When someone asks me where I get my moral compass, my reply is the Founding Documents, not some religious tome. Wouldn't any reasonable person consider this when speaking of atheists? I guess not. Must be that feeling of superiority. Everybody likes to feel superior sometimes.

Mike aka Dragonfly said...

I don't like the 87-13 numbers since that assumes all Americans not associated with one must fall in the other group. Maybe this is where I become independent. Finally! right Bawdy
Before you start feeling to superior let me pass on some of my personal experiences with both groups. Both groups have hate-filled lunatics in your ranks. The hate the both can display is so ridiculous since neither side can make any real claim to the truth, only opinions.
Well, anyhow until the when the haters are gone, be careful to “whereith ye cast the first stone”. Good advice for both groups.

G said...


To answer your first paragraph, yes. That is exactly the case. God comes before country.

Royce said...

If atheist are Americans first why don't more serve in the armed forces? Just this week, I had a young man, an atheist, tell me he would never lay his life down for his country or serve in the military. And few do serve.

Most of them are academic hacks.

csm said...

Yes, yes, Royce, you talked to one atheist and now you know that few serve. Are you really that brain dead?


Maybe if Christian politicians(as far as I know we haven't had any atheist leaders) used the military in a sensible way, i.e. for defense of our land mass only, instead of all of political wars we have fought since WWII; atheists might trust our government to the point of enlisting in larger numbers Royce. And maybe more Christians and Mulims and Jews and all other denominations would enlist in greater numbers. Just a thought Royce.

csm said...

By the way, the things that were discussed at this meeting were:

1) protecting children from religiously-based medical neglect,

2) ending military proselytizing, and

3) ending tax-funded faith-based initiatives which discriminate and proselytize.

You may not agree with the stance taken on these issues, but none of them are hate-filled!

Anonymous said...

Irregardless of your lack of interest in any form of faith does anyone really know what lies on the other side?
Atheists with their cynicsm and religious minded folk with their self righteousness = a world of continual negative flow.
Since atheists lack any deity or foundation for a faith they are not a faith and therefore have no say so in discussions of religious discrimination period. Simple logic.
Second religious minded folk have no right imposing their beliefs on others HOWEVER the US is a judeo christian nation(natives set aside) so if you do not agree with that premise please leave or stop your pointless futility!

bawdyscot said...

Anyone who starts any kind of statement with "irregardless" deserves the ridicule they get. Even though I am an atheist I consider myself a libertarian first. And since I am a libertarian, I find ANY kind of discrimination abhorrent. Even religious discrimination. And I WILL comment as I see fit. Fucker! Excuse me, Anonymous Fucker!

Also, this is NOT a Judeo-Christian nation, it is a Republic of Free States which elects it's political representatives democratically with the idea that ALL men/women(now)are created equally no matter what their religious preference. This is not an idea espoused by the Bible. It was an idea espoused by a people who were tired of being run roughshod by a tyrant. Where is that story in the Bible? I get real tired hearing how this is some "Christian Nation" when most of our Founding Documents are really products of the Magna Carta, English common law of the time and the Age of Reason. Just because most Americans call themselves Christians doesn't make your dream come true as one of the beauties of our Constitution is the rights held by the minorities, as was planned by the Founders.

csm said...

Nicely said, Bawdy.

Anonymous said...

The US is founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. One can take the revisionist road until they feel secure but it is fact for any serious student of history. To find a nation founded upon the secular humanist principles, see China or the USSR.

bawdyscot said...

So you are saying liberty is only confered by God? And that slavery was not? Go fuck yourself. This country was founded on the idea of liberty of the INDIVIDUAL and not some organized religion or even God herself. And tell me how Christian it was for Protestants to burn down Quaker churches which was prevelant at the time. And this experiment in individual liberty still is not over, no thanks to Christians.

Anonymous said...

Oh, you got me. You used the f-bomb. Well played. Go do some study and learn with an open mind. Its not my opinion, it was instituted by the founders like it or not.

Yes, the DI is clear that our freedom is from God, not man. If it was from man then man could take it.

bawdyscot said...

Man CAN take it from you, it is happening right now under our noses, you fool. And the MAIN sentiment of the DI as you call it has much more to do with separation from the tyrannical King than it does with God and what he does for us as humans. Also, when the DI was written mankind was only just beginning to enter the Age of Reason, where science was becoming more prevalent and knowledge was becoming something not only religious leaders controlled. I don't blame the religious leaders, they were just protecting their turf(power)which is logical, but hardly "Christian".

I also find it interesting you just keep repeating your mantra and add nothing in rebuttal to my specific comments, such as the burning of Quaker churches during and after the Revolution. It is because of this we have religious LIBERTY, I like this word better than freedom, not some passages in the Bible.

I don't deny that the vast majority of Americans at the beginning were Christian, and if that is your criteria for your comment, then you are technically correct. What I am saying is the reason this country was formed, and the only country to date, was the idea of individual liberty which as far as I know has nothing to do with the Bible. And if that is your only criteria, lots of other countries can claim the same name and we become much less exceptional, no?

bawdyscot said...

Another thing, why do all you Christian Nation types like to throw Mao and Stalin at atheists? Do you all read from the same playbook? Do you like to think of others as cardboard cut-outs devoid of any talking points? As a liberty loving person I have nothing but ill will towards both, but you assholes(see I can use other words besides fuck)always want to bring these guys into the conversation as if there is no other way for us to live out our lives. The Constitution, and the Declaration, are my moral compasses and since this is so it would be natural for me to find Mao and Stalin reprehensible. Can you understand that? If so, please, in the future, if we continue this conversation, keep those two figures, who rarely cross my mind, out of future posts.

Anonymous said...

Let me take a few points to help you understand.

"the MAIN sentiment of the DI as you call it has much more to do with separation from the tyrannical King"

Duh! and declared our rights are from God, not man!

"when the DI was written mankind was only just beginning to enter the Age of Reason"

So? Age of reason includes God if you haven't noticed. Have you stumbled on something that has eliminated God?

"I don't deny that the vast majority of Americans at the beginning were Christian"

I never made that claim. I said the nations foundation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Its a fact. You can use these principles and not be a Christian. Many atheist use it for their moral rule.

"the idea of individual liberty which as far as I know has nothing to do with the Bible"

Then you know zero about the Bible. That is where the idea that freedom comes from our Creator originated.

"why do all you Christian Nation types like to throw Mao and Stalin at atheists?"

Again, more reading comprehension issues. Mao and Stalin are the results of nations run by atheists. Atheism is limited freedom as allowed by men. That is also a fact we see in history. China?

"keep those two figures, who rarely cross my mind, out of future posts."

If I am back, then absolutely not since they are relevant. Closing your eyes does not change the history of atheist rulers. I have found a couple of words YOU find offensive. You seem to deserve to see them.